I caught this hilarious post by Lux Nightmare on Fleshbot the other morning and thought it was just too funny not to share.
The underlying story of how Philip Warner, AKA Lithium Picnic is back to cheerfully promoting and defending SuicideGirls however is really disappointing. When he found himself at odds with his exclusionary employer SuicideGirls, he cried far and wide, pleading for everyone in the scene to take up his cause with his ‘Free Lithium Picnic’ merch machine and calls for benefit art shows and donation drives, etc. There wasn’t a place on the internet that someone could mention that they kind of think maybe altporn bully SuicideGirls is a ‘blight on our scene’ or whatever without at least a handful of LP supporters and questionable sock puppets interjecting ‘Free Lithium Picnic’ at every turn. Yet somehow the rhetoric seemed mismatched with what few facts had emerged about the $100,000 breach of contract case SuicideGirls had brought against Philip. Although we have been supportive of getting the facts out there as best we can in the past, we’ve never really bought in to the ensuing hype, despite the well intentioned efforts of sites like DeviantNation, who went so far as to pass along a neat little ‘Free Lithium Picnic’ chipin donation flash widgets that they wanted sites like APN to to run so that Philip could generate more funds.
One of the main reasons we do not cover SuicideGirls more often here at APN is that we’ve seen SuicideGirls notoriously controlling contracts and frankly, they don’t look that difficult to find yourself in breach of. I could see participating in legal fee fund raisers and other charity events once the court found Philip Warner not guilty, but if he was guilty of breach, then giving him money would just be a waste. APN attempted to interview Lithium Picnic about what the fight with SG was actually over, but we were informed that we would only be able to interview Apnea instead, as he was not supposed to discuss legal issues pertaining to the case. Not that we ever mind talking to hot and adorable Apnea and she was very helpful and informative in every interaction. However if, like APN, you have been wondering about the actual details of this legal battle, Lux Nightmare’s Fleshbot post links to where Amelia G over at BlueBlood.net wrote SuicideGirls vs Lithium Picnic Lawsuit Settled, which is an excellent deconstruction of the lawsuit and the community’s response to it. The feeling over there seems to be that Apnea is innocent, but LP is at the very least guilty of selling out the principles he asked so many to sacrifice for and support. Not that we mind if ultra sexy and cute Apnea turns out to be the only good guy in the whole legal mess.
I guess what I’m saying is that I’ve never been 100% convinced Lithium Picnic was actually innocent. He worked for SuicideGirls for a long time. He was there when they we’re pulling all sorts of shady business with their models. One falling out among a clan of bad people doesn’t suddenly transform someone into being the good guy. It would be nice if he were innocent, but there was a strong chance he actually wasn’t. We were looking forward to the court’s decision to make everything clear.
“Free Lithium Picnic” boybeater tank top: $25. Limited edition print benefiting Lithium Picnic lawsuit relief: $450. Total Lithium Picnic lawsuit relief: $20,000. Finding out the whole thing was just a “misunderstanding”: priceless. (warnermediagroup.com + sglawsuit.chipin.com + community.livejournal.com; more @ blueblood.net)
The sad part is the Altporn world is actually dumb enough to believe that he posted that on his own, and was not forced to do so.
“never bought into the ensuing hype”…
Hmmm..sounds mighty hypocritical, now that you are jumping on the “shocked and disappointed” bandwagon based solely on one very biased article in blue blood.
Next time try checking facts from more than one source. Those of us who are very familiar with the situation find the blue blood article hysterical in the over exaggerated, naive simplification of the situation. I have payed for transcripts of both cases and have them sitting in front of me, so I know exactly what went on in both cases. How about you? Did you dig any deeper than just taking the word of someone else?
Naaaw, that would have been way too much trouble, and venom generates more clicks.
We were never 100% sure he didn’t breach his contract. Read the previous interview with Apnea. It sounds like he announced the launch of a competitive site and SG threw his contract at him. That has always sounded like the basis for the disagreement. He signed that contract and a lot of good photographers didn’t.
Given Blue Blood’s history with SuicideGirls, we would have guessed any bias Amelia G could have would be anti-SG, so we thought the article read pretty objective. Amelia G quoted a bunch of other people’s opinions, so people were reacting before that article. What would make you think the Blue Blood article was biased, just because it was not 100% ‘rah rah Free Lithium Picnic’? We also think that Lux Nightmare’s Fleshbot article was written before the Blue Blood one, she just added the link to the Blue Blood article after. We could be wrong, but that’s how it read to us. There are posts all over the alt internet from LiveJournal to MySpace to ModelMayhem that communicate the same view.
A lot of people are very disappointed and find it fairly unlikely that Philip was forced to be that positive against his will, and even if he was, there is going to be disappointment that he’d cave in on something so many people sacrificed their time and money to support on his account. How many people were kicked off SG and banned for life for sticking up for his cause? Now he gets to be friendly with them again and tell people to join SG like nothing happened? That IS shocking and disappointing, with or without Blue Blood’s analysis. We read the comments on the Blue Blood article and they invited Philip to clarify, but he just called names and let you talk for him. He put himself in this public view, he should talk his way out, but so far he’s not doing a very convincing job.
I don’t think you have to be “shocked and disappointed” from reading the blue blood article, just look at LP’s fucking site. His hypocrisy is right there. I don’t even think the details of the lawsuit are that important. The fact is is that he has gone back to supporting a site that makes it’s money by fucking people over and giving the alternative scene a bad name. SG was doing awful things before he was being sued and he stood by and supported them, then when he was being sued they were suddenly this evil monster. Now everything is fine and he’s kissing their ass to make money with them again? What a piece of shit, he’s no better than Sean.
“going to be disappointment that he’d cave in on something so many people sacrificed their time and money to support on his account. How many people were kicked off SG and banned for life for sticking up for his cause?”
Sacrificed? he’s spent over $18,000 and still owes over $25,000 to his attorneys. He fought SG for two solid years and it impacted his life, career, and ultimately his relationship.
Just because they were apparently forced to make that post doesn’t mean they are “being buddy buddy” with SG he’s still commented that he is unable to shoot current or former SG models and he still promotes DeviantNation.
“We read the comments on the Blue Blood article and they invited Philip to clarify, but he just called names and let you talk for him. He put himself in this public view, he should talk his way out,”
Do you really think a settlement with SG would not include nondisclosure and nondisparagement clauses? If he’s not talking about details or defending himself it’s probably because they can’t. They have always been extremely vocal in the past this is very uncharacteristic for both of them.
I’m shocked that everyone is foolish enough to think this means they are really friends or that he’s going back to SG.
He’s going to spend over $40,000 for this fight by the time it’s all over with and all you haters can post about is how wronged you are and how you’ve paid such a dear price losing your membership to a shitty website. Just remember no one has wasted more time on money on all of this than he has and he still continues to pay the price while all of you throw stones and call him a coward and a sellout.
How many of you would have gone 40k in debt and fight tooth and nail for two years of your life over principal? They mentioned in the past that they turned down lop sided settlement offers in the beginning of the case, everyone has a breaking point leave the poor guy alone he’s been through enough shit and he’s still paying for it.
heh. what a bunch of cunts they all are.
ALL OF THEM.I bet everybody feels really fucked in the ass right now. Just like they should. This is what happens when an entire scene is led to believe something is ‘real’ that is actually just a red herring commercial promotional machine. Sound familiar…Even its gross offsprings (godsgirls and deviant nation) are even more contrived and pathetic than suicide girls ever was, or could be. It’s better to be the original, than some pathetic knock off claiming to be “SO DIFFERENT”. Phillip seems to be a person who will work for any piece of shit corperate mcCdonalds, lacks any real vision and is ok with that. Truth is most fast food chains are owned by the same company, and serve the same fries that are delivered by SYSCO the worlds leading manufacturer of frozen french fries. I think you’re getting the point now altporn world. You got FUCKED.
The funny thing about it is, you also DIDN’T get fucked cause none of the shit they produce is FUCKING PORNOGRAPHY..so you got some bland version, of pinup with a splash of some softcore, alot of stupid ideas about whats so righteous about someone who was pocketing your ‘relief fund’. Personally I usually want to kick spare changing losers in the face, especially if their wearing super cool hipster clothes.
-getcha sum.
To Sean:
So your site of low quality blurry porn is so much better? I’d rather see artistic imagery than the same old girl sucking cock and bad photographery any day.
Video screen shots are some times blurry.
Thats just a fact of life. Your point of view is not only limited in knowledge, about who I am or what Ive done, but also quite off subject. If you can produce 20 thousand photos and a bunch of movies, code your website, and design everything, and single handedly fund,edit and produce everything without some corperate funding then talk. until then..shut the fuck up.
Just because you can do all those things doesn’t mean you can do them well. Just get your head out of your own ass and realize that your site is just like every other porn site because really they are all the same.
whoa, you really told me..didnt ya. hahahha.
Philip Warner settled the case, and part of that settlement is that neither he nor Apnea can speak about it. He agreed to this knowing that he and Apnea had already spoken out and that their remarks would forever be part of the public record. He’d already done the honorable thing of speaking out, so he could accept the settlement, knowing his words remained.
Don’t assume that the settlement meant that he was certain to lose the suit. If neither side had a lock on what the outcome would be (and there was as much speculation that he would win as lose, since non-competition agreements are notoriously difficult and are often overturned or partially overturned), Sean Suhl may have offered a settlement that would buy Phil and Apnea’s silence in exchange for reducing some of the enormous debt that Sean Suhl had caused them. Since this is the real world, Phil would have had to make a decision about whether or not to settle based on what would be most beneficial to his livelihood. Suits are not “to the death”. People have to live after they’re done. To question his decision is beyond arrogant. You weren’t in his shoes.
Although I personally feel, as does most everyone, that it would have been satisfying to have Sean Suhl lose another suit, as he lost in Los Angeles, we must remember that it was not Phil’s intention to destroy Suhl. Remember that when Suhl explained that by dragging out the suit he was fulfilling his philosophy of “disproportionate retribution”, that philosophy was held in contempt by Phil and by most everyone who was supporting Phil. Destruction was not what Phil valued.
This was a real world situation, and compromises were made that let people continue living their lives — after a long period of being outspoken that more than clearly stated the perspectives of everyone involved.
This suit caused harm to Phil and Apnea’s life, emotionally, financially, and yes, morally – no one likes nondisclosure agreements. I don’t wish their situation on anyone, and I do not begrudge them a bit for having settled.
Actually, a part of the Free LP campaign was “Sink the Pink”. I can’t give you quotes from them (no time to go through months of blogs/interviews/etc), but a big part of their rallying was with the notion that they were in fact going to severely dent SG’s credibility (they did, marvelously might I add, but not in the way they projected they would). That’s one of the reasons why they had so many supporters in the first place.
It is ridiculous to expect Phil and Apnea to somehow be the conquering heroes, but that was their angle in promoting their campaign.
Just sayin’.
“Actually, a part of the Free LP campaign was “Sink the Pink”
It was just a song on his myspace page, I think it was tongue in cheek and I’d say calling that “part of the campaign” is about as ridiculous a stretch of the imagination as the rest of the hogwash posted here and is on par for the course.
Darling, I know what I’ve seen, and “sink the pink” was not just a song on his Myspace page. It didn’t catch on as well as “Viva” (if I hear that word one more time…), but he had said it in other places (and I mean verbally as well as in text), and it wasn’t in reference to that song.
Quite frankly, the only ones calling all of these accusations “hogwash” are Philip and his obsessive ass kissers and hangers on. It would be nice if he actually came forward himself to speak about this instead of hiding behind his fans and instigating flame wars.
Seems that some people hear what they want to hear. Some evidently heard that if the court found Philip Warner not liable for the $100,000 in damaged that Suhl sought, that this would somehow have an impact on Suhl. Get real. No one with even a vague understanding of the case would expect Suhl to have been “sunk” in any literal way. In a case such as this, the defendant either loses (and pays Suhl $100,000), or stays the same — but nothing is done to the person who brought the suit (Suhl)! The only way that Suhl’s company would have been damaged was through damage to their reputation. And Warner and Apnea did everything in their power to damage Suhl’s reputation, by making their case a focal point for all of Suhl’s questionable contract practices.
Bedlam has a point about flame wars. AmeliaG seems to thrive on them. And Phil does tend to get sucked into them — if only he could stop reading her drivel.
As far as what LP is claiming in his LJ (as linked by bedlam), I don’t see Amelia G saying anything in the Blue Blood article that Philip is claiming she said. The article is pretty clear and I don’t see the term ‘Anonymous’ or ‘Legion’ or even a veiled reference to masonic images anywhere in the article at all. Nowhere in the article or the related conversation on Blue Blood is there any claim resembling what he’s complaining about in his LJ. As far as I can tell, LP is just making things up. That’s a real head scratcher there. And I doubt anyone would seriously consider “SuicideGirls vs Lithium Picnic Lawsuit Settled” as being an overly sensational title for an article on the subject. I think that was the title of his announcement that he settled the case.
Phil wrote: “Amelia G from Blueblood has accused me (among other things) of ripping off “Anonymous” with my recent Masonic Legion image… The text read ‘My name is Legion… for we are many.'”
Nowhere does he say where he read that. Sounds like he better start adding a reference section to his posts if people are going to start to believe he’s lying. Given a choice between him and the gossip column that is Amelia G, I’d chose him for reliability. But your mileage may vary.
Amelia G says she has no idea what he’s talking about there either. Also, she shows evidence that he’s refusing to unscreen her response to him asking what he’s talking about. Looking over his LJ thread, there is also evidence that looks a lot like people who are trying to rationally discuss the situation or the Blue Blood coverage of the trial in any way are having their posts deleted from his LJ, so it’s just a couple of posters who seem to repeatedly agree with anything he says, even though he’s offered up no support for his accusation at all. Blue Blood cited the information in their article. He might not like it, but it does not appear to be ‘made up’.
APN had given him the benefit of the doubt, but watching the childish way he’s reacting to the altporn community’s surprise and disappointment by making things up, name calling, censoring posts, etc. is really decreasing a lot of people’s opinion of him. He really does appear to be acting just like SG. I guess that shouldn’t be a surprise, but it really comes as a shock to everyone here at APN who thought he was so much better than SG, even though he worked for them.
This isn’t about Amelia G, deckard. It’s about good questions that have been brought up that Philip refuses to answer. Stop trying to gossip and knock her. This discussion is about Philip. Again, THIS ISN’T ABOUT AMELIA G.
Phil CANNOT answer questions about the settlement, he’s under a nondisclosure agreement! (He should, however, answer if that ‘We are legion’ rip was not accurate).
Bedlam, I agree, this is not about Amelia G. She’s just a pundit who is trying to build public sentiment against him. It seems unfair, considering that he is not able to respond.
There are hundreds of comments on LP’s DeviantArt page who are sad that he did not win this case in court, but many seem at least understanding that he had to end it. That sympathy just seems to be lacking in some of the punditry, and it makes me sad, not only to see the lack of sympathy, but also to see that people who do have sympathy are being called “obsessive ass kissers” rather than being called people who have sympathy.
I also think that some people have a better understanding that non-competition agreements are far from clear-cut; some think they are, but that is not so. They’re the most dubious part of a contract you can imagine, and they often trip people and companies up, resulting in situations like this one.
I’d like to see the court records — I’ve heard they are available, but I haven’t seen anyone post them yet.
I don’t think that anyone truly gives 2 shits whether the court case was settled or not. This whole situation occurring now has to do with the fact that he is trying to make SG money, to help with his financial situation. Why SG? Why not support another alt-porn site that needs the money, instead of the WALMART of alt-porn?
I understand he is under an NDA, I don’t expect him to comment about the trial, nor the outcome, but the reason everyone is so miffed has nothing to do with the fact that he settled out of court instead of fighting it to the ends of the earth. We all realize it was a real-life situation in which real people’s lives were involved. And I can’t say that I wouldn’t have settled out of court, this case had been drug through the dirt, time and again. But, the fact still remains that he is PROMOTING the very people who caused this situation in the first place. To me, that sounds a bit hypocritical, but that’s just my two cents, who the hell am I to tell him how to live his life? He just shouldn’t be so defensive and childish when people get pissed that they supported what they THOUGHT was the first step into the right direction, and ended up 5 miles backwards.
Oh, that. It seemed obvious that he had to post that – it got posted to all his outlets, word for word. Looks like he also had to donate his earlier work to that book it mentions too. I’ll be boycotting that book if LP isn’t getting a cent from it — I’ll wait for a book of his own.
Athena Hollow get 9 billion kudos.Good Thinkin.:)
Right on Athena… couldn’t have said it any better.
Athena has won at the internet. Seriously.
Sigh… Deckard…
The questions were not all about the case, but what he did with the “Support” money he received. He also never cited where Amelia G said he “ripped off anonymous” (maybe he’s just afraid to say he’s taking Encyclopedia Dramatica seriously).
And if you agree that this isn’t about Amelia G, than stop talking about her and knocking her. Your comments have no relevance other than to try to undermine her credibility, which makes you look like a huge sockpuppet. Unless it is relevant (and not just LP fans whining and repeating Philip’s butt-hurt sentiments), she doesn’t need to be brought up.
AthenaHollow, so you do not understand that the settlement is *why* he has to promote his enemy? And you cannot imagine that he is hoping that people remember what he said when he was allowed to speak his mind? Use your imagination, dear.
Bedlam, bedlam, bedlam, so you’re trying to suggest that Phil made off with the donation money, and that he isn’t really still paying off his lawyers? At least you have imagination, even if you’re using it in a mean way.
Helen, thanks for bringing some balance into a terribly one-sided conversation.
I’m not suggesting anything–other than he refuses to answer any questions 🙂
I can honestly 100% say that if part of a court settlement involved me giving up my right to the freedom of speech, or at least make me completely change my “aspect” of the situation just to make it legit, that I would in NO WAY sign any paperwork.
So no, I don’t understand that Deckard. That’s completely incredulous and ridiculous.
I have yet to see a single court that would allow for such a thing. To say “Yea, it’s done, we are all done, let’s stop fighting about it” is one thing, but to FORCE someone to completely support the person that was suing them is bullshit.
It sounds me like you are letting YOUR imagination run wild.
And no, he cannot honestly think that anyone is going to “remember” what he said before. This has completely trampled the thought that he was a trusted, and devoted person to help out the alt community, not stab everyone who supported him in the back (whether that was his intentions or not) But, I must say, if he didn’t see it coming, he’s extremely ignorant or very arrogant.
I’m really glad that Athena is here on this debate, becasue ‘bedlamb’ sounds like the name of a very easily led animal that somehow appeared in a bed. and I gotta be honest I just can get past that part of this conversation here. Thank god all the easily led aminals end up in LP’s bed and not mine. Everyone PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP. (except Athena) She should pwn all your asses continuously. First of all everyone..the clause in the contracts every SG employee (which is what models and photographers are UNLESS you OWN your own website) is called a noncompete. usually if you work at any business you sign a noncompete for the duration of your employment and generally for a period of two years after termination of your employment. Its called ‘standard contract law’ LOOK IT UP. DEAR IDIOTS: learn how to read. contracts dont come in pop up picture book style like when you were learning about dick and jane. But if I were LP i would do what the pictures say dick is doing…run.
see dick run.
Im gonna make a picture book called
“see jane make porno.” Athena Hollow will prolly be in it, in stick figure form.
Dear ” bed lambs ” STFU.
Kthxbye
PS- NOTHING AGAINST bedlam im just LOLing at that name in theis conversation. its really nothing against anyone..its just FUCKING HILARIOUS.
now everyone STFU . ok Im STFU’ing nowz.
HEY, great idea instead of debating contracts that are really simple and not funny
LOOK AT LOLPRON INSTEAD>
its really cool.
bedlam (plural bedlams) n.
A place or situation of chaotic uproar, and where confusion prevails.
Hehe. Actually I think that definition is more appropriate.
Telling everyone to STFU makes you sound like a troll.
STFU is the best thing to say to people that want to continuously promote assholes through means of red herring tactics and disillusion the public with smoke screens and generic chaos.